9.25.2012

Monolith Myths

--cross-posted on Musings in the Dark

Recently, I had the experience of corresponding with a young woman I’ll call Brina.  Brina was friends with a Filipino guy I’ll call Asshole.  You’ll understand why in a little while.  Anyway, Brina got out of a relationship and became friends with Asshole.  They got along very well, and five months after meeting, they became friends with benefits.

I’m going to digress for a moment to say this:  FWBs just don’t work.  It requires a particular mindset, and most women don’t have said mental perspective.  We will rationalize the hell out of the situation and look for validation in the tiniest of opinions, but the truth of the matter is that FWBs simply.don’t.work.  Because once that happens, the power dynamic shifts.  In this case, Brina allowed the power to shift to Asshole, and he began to demonstrate his name.

Anyhoo, the FWB situation went on for a few months.  One day, Asshole tells Brina (who’s rocking a ‘fro) that he prefers her hair to be “long and straight.”  For us seasoned vets, that’s the first red flag.  Brina recognized it (probably via hindsight) as a red flag, but she dismissed it.  Then one night, Asshole got drunk and told her that he really liked her and he was considering asking her out, but couldn’t because she wasn’t white.

Take a moment; let that marinate.

Brina dismissed his drunken statement as the musings of a drunk, but my Momma always told me that a drunk speaks a sober mind.  Sometime later, Asshole (now sober) told Brina again that he couldn’t date her because she wasn’t white, and she became upset.  To paraphrase her words; if he liked her and considered her a friend, then he wouldn’t have said such things to her.  She ended the friendship and it took him two months to apologize.  The situation caused Brina to question her attraction to Asian men in general, and she wanted to know how to get past the hurt.

I’m not an expert on anything, but I’m old enough to have learned some things when dealing with a significant other.  Brina said that she never saw him as anything more than a friend, but I call shenanigans.  I’m reposting some of my responses below.

“What I first have to ask is did you truly like this guy as potentially more than a friend, or was he was someone you were just cool with?  Based on the rest of your message, I'm inclined to think the former was the case.  Otherwise, it wouldn't have hurt so bad.”


“The second thing I should point out is that you didn't take time to heal from your last relationship, regardless as to you being "friends" with this guy.  You were hurting and it was instinctive to transfer some of your emotion onto the new guy.  So when the hurt came, it was a double whammy.”

“But the second you had sex with him, you lost your power.  He didn't see you as anything more than a piece of ass…You should have ended your relationship with him immediately after he let you know that he couldn't accept you as you are, in spite of having sex with you on a regular basis.  Again, this is indicative of how he sees you.”

In re: the hair:


“Your hair wasn't long and straight when you entered into the FWB agreement, correct?  He didn't have a problem with your hair when you guys were sweating it out, right?”  


In re: him telling her that he couldn’t ask her out because she wasn’t white:


“What you heard from him is the pure, unadulterated truth.  He wasn't confused; he was simply being honest for the very first time.  Again, you were black when you were doing the horizontal bop and he didn't have a problem with it then…You shouldn't have been surprised.  He told you this before.  Him being drunk is irrelevant.  He was looking for the courage to tell you this.  That he found it in a bottle tells you what kind of man he really is...and is this a man you want to be in a relationship with?"


In re: her questioning his perspective in regards to their “friendship”:

“Yet another indicator that you thought more of him than he did of you.  If he liked you and was an actual friend, he would have never said the words.  That it took him two months to apologize tells you one more time that he's a dick...and you're better off without him.

In re: Brina’s claim that they were nothing but friends:

“Are you sure about this?  You don't have to tell me, but you need to be truthful with yourself.  If all he was to you was a friend, then I don't think his words would have hurt as much as they did.  Only you know this for sure.

In re: Brina questioning her attraction to Asian men as a result:

“It don't matter what color he is; he could be black, white, Asian, Arab, Hispanic, purple or Scotch plaid...men of all colors have pulled shit like this.  His skin color has nothing to do with the fact that he's a dick.  Your interest in Asian men should not be deterred by the actions of one assholeyou can't judge an entire race or gender based on the behavior of that one guy.  A brotha could have done it, as could a white man or a Hispanic dude.  Just so happens, this cat was Filipino.”


And in re: her question on how to deal with the debacle:


“I suggest you take some time to be alone and process all this.  Give yourself time to heal and decide what it is you really want in a relationship, then be open to it.   And when I say time, I don't mean a few weeks.  Stop dwelling on it.  You didn't do anything wrong.  Cry if you need to, throw things, cuss him out, burn his picture...whatever.  Once you get past the immediate anger, then letting go becomes easier.  And when I say let go, that means ending your "friendship" with him.  Close that door and lock it.  If you try to maintain any kind of relationship with this guy, all it will do is draw out your pain.  He's already shown you who he is, so believe him…The next time your instincts tell you to run or drop a mofo, listen and obey.”


I know it wasn’t easy for Brina to read my responses, but she didn’t email me with the expectations of getting a sugarcoated reply; at least I hope not.  I hope she took my words to heart, because I speak from experience.  It isn’t fair for her to assume that just because one douchenozzle (who happened to be Asian) broke her heart that all Asian men will do the same, and it isn’t fair to Asian men that she make such a broad supposition.  Men aren’t monoliths.  Assholes come in all shapes, sizes, colors and genders.

Brina’s email got me to thinking about how easy it is for people to classify entire groups based on an individual.  This happens every day, with every societal construct.  Election season is in full swing and everybody everywhere is hearing all these monolithic myths.  You know a few:

“All men are dogs.”

“Black women are ugly, fat, independent gold-digging welfare moms.”

“A white man wouldn’t treat me like this.”

“Asian women are docile.”

“All she needs is some dick to make her feel better.”

“Black men ain’t shit.”

“Asian men are effeminate.”

“She’s a mean lesbian man-hating stuck-up bitch [because she won’t go out with me].”

I could go on, but you get the idea.  And I’m sure I’ll be revisiting this topic in later posts.  Feel free to share any monolith myths you’ve heard or have knowledge of.

33 comments:

  1. I see and hear this all the time. But people are people no matter what race they are. And you were right to say that just because he treated her this way that another guy who happens to be Filipino wouldn't.

    What I don't understand is why she joined the friends with benefits arrangement in the first place. I read that she hadn't gotten over her past relationship so maybe that was it. Or was it because she felt like this was her way to get with him if she did like him (and I do agree Ank that she did).

    He was a total asshole and the minute he made a comment about her hair would be the minute to cut things off. He was a wimp, loser douchebag, who which forever reason felt like a black women was ok the have sex with but not be with.

    Urgh long post and its very late so I'm going to bed. But I agree with you Ank. Just spend time with yourself. Take yourself out on a couple of dates! I hear Taken 2 is coming out soon (yayayayy!) and the weather is nice outside. Have fun with yourself and forget him.

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    1. SADNESS!!! Its one of those weeks for me. Amaya everything I said to Ank for I meant for you. smh at my own self...

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  2. We Black women (American Black women in particular) Know all about this kind of shit. She needs to let this guy go. That comment about her hair made my stomach turn. Black women have to be smarter than this. I'm seeing way too many sistas getting 'caught up.' I had a friend (We don't speak anymore) who was a part of the "Black-men-ain't-shit-club" She wound up getting involved with this guy (Who is not Black he's Asian)they got engaged, she got pregnant, went into labor, I called him to let him know, he said "I'm on my way.." Never showed up, and that was five years ago. He hasn't paid a dime of child support and has never seen his daughter.

    You are so correct when you say these kinds of men come in all colors. And I know this may be a bit off topic, but I know quite a few Black women who let shit slide with men who are not Black, but let a Black man pull some of these same stunts! You need to vet these guys better. I'm not an easy girl to get close to, so of course, I have an "Attitude." It's not an attitude. It's, I know what the fuck I want, and it ain't you.

    When we're deeply hurt, we can react in the same kind of extreme way she's reacting. I'm not saying her dumping all Asian men in the same category is right, but she definitely needs time to heal.

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  3. It is easier to project your failure to take necessary action (i.e. leave Asshole at the first sign of trouble) onto entire groups instead of taking responsibility for your own actions. On the flip side, if a woman was able to land a date with the man of their dreams, she wouldn't attribute this to her race or his race or any other group. This is classic attribution theory applied to groups - if I'm a failure, it is someone else's fault but if I'm successful, I did it all by myself. I believe that a good number of stereotypes and monolithic myths about certain groups are generated when we engage in this kind of behavior. As a result, opportunities for interracial dating/marriages are cut off before they get started.

    Assholery knows no race. As a Blasian myself, I get highly irritated when I hear stereotypes about Black men/women just the same as I hear ones about Asian men/women especially from members of their own race. Despite attempts to keep different races apart, people really are just people. Regardless of who you date/marry, once they've lost respect for you, you'll never get it back. I wish her well as it hurts like a SOB initially but hopefully, she'll gain insight from your advice.

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  4. Can anyone elaborate on "Black men ain't shit"...?

    I'm not familiar with it, but to me it sounds like a BW that looks down on black guys and would only date non black guys?

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    1. You'd be correct. According to them, every single one of the millions of Black men on the planet aren't worth the salt in their food, and must be avoided at all cost.

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  5. Several thoughts that went through my mind as I read this. 1) It is possible for his words to have hurt that much even if Brina thought of him as just a friend. I know I'd be pissed if a "friend" I wasn't having sex with came up to me saying stuff like what Asshole said. 2) I've seen FWBs work...but I noticed that they worked (among straight friends) because the man viewed women as human beings before the sex, this as opposed to viewing women as just a piece of ass. The friendship was usually established before the sex happened, maybe this is what made them work? And I find it very amusing, the moment when I realised almost everyone in my circle of friends have had sex with each other :D

    While I think it is sensible to learn from one's experiences, I find it silly when people paint broad strokes on a large group of people based on bad experiences. Amaya rightly says no one is a monolith. I really hope Brina gains something from this advice.

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    1. "2) I've seen FWBs work...but I noticed that they worked (among straight friends) because the man viewed women as human beings before the sex, this as opposed to viewing women as just a piece of ass. The friendship was usually established before the sex happened, maybe this is what made them work?"

      I've seen this as well. I was in a similar situation and we were best friends before hand. Till this day we've remained close friends. It can work if there is respect involved and both people are clear about the situation. This guy Amaya is talking about is just a straight jackass. I'm sure he wouldn't want someone treating his mama that way, and again, that hair comment? I would have cussed him out on site for that.

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  6. Yes many of my friends are just like" I want____race guys" Having dated a few guys of each race I try to tell them dating ____ race will not rid you of BS, it will just be a new style of BS but it's the same old BS.

    I've given up trying to tell them though, because...people have to learn on their own. I don't know why people think crossing over is so great, but I guess it's a grass is greener mindset. I mean if you're attracted to ___ physically don't try to come up with reasons to justify it by disparaging another group, especially your own. Attractions is attractions.

    Any relationship takes work, taking racial shortcuts don't make it easier.

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  7. I'm with Nicole, that hair comment wasn't just a red flag, it should have been a boot. How aptly he is named.

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  8. “I suggest you take some time to be alone and process all this. Give yourself time to heal and decide what it is you really want in a relationship, then be open to it. And when I say time, I don't mean a few weeks."

    I wish women would really take this advice, when I was young in my early 20's I wish I did that, but I guess that comes with age and learning from trial and error.

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  9. First, let me say that I know the young woman Amaya is referring to and here's what I took from this:

    No, she shouldn't have started a FWB arrangement with this dude. Yes, she should've split the second he made that comment about her hair.

    But I found it interesting that while she was so offended by this Worshiper, she was ready to write off an entire group of men...just because of her experiences with him.

    I've known black women like this before; I knew one who strictly dated white dudes back to back to disastrous effect each time. But she never quit. She instead kept holding out for "The One."

    She would've never tolerated such behavior from a black man. To even suggest she date an Asian or Latino would've been like suggesting she hop in a space shuttle and go try the dating scene on Mars.

    My point? We do it too, and in the case of Brina, she was doing it while it was being done to her. What kind of fucked up world do we live in?

    Secondly, why am I not surprised Amaya's posts got all these comments while folks just glided right by mine?

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  10. To even suggest she date an Asian or Latino would've been like suggesting she hop in a space shuttle and go try the dating scene on Mars.

    I'm planning on trying out the dating scene on Saturn; want to come?

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  11. From what I gather about Bri's situation, seemed very vulnerable and "A--hole" may have sensed that. Why do I also see rebound in this?

    I agree with all on you. Bri should have gotten her first hint when the man said that he preferred a woman with long straight hair( like there are no Black women fitting that description). Perhaps the worst thing that she has done to herself was being an FWB. She gave herself up without knowing the joker first and/taking her out on dates. Once she literally opened herself up to him that was it.

    Bri may be hurting because she could have mistaken a sexual relationship for love and secondly, it probably is hurting more to know that A--hole wasn't her shiny knight in armour. I could be wrong,but I deeply believe that Bria had high expectations for him because of his ethnicity and she's not the only woman who feels this way. I remembered going on other AMBW websites fussing with a girl who didn't want talk about this subject. To her, there were no such thing as a bad Asian man and if you tried to talk about it, she would cut you off. Recently, I went to a Japanese festival and I was overhearing two girls..looking like they were no older than 23..talking about it. According to one of them, she "loved" Asian/japanese guys. Ok ,there is nothing wrong with that as there were a lot of hot ones in the place. When her friend asked why she "loved" them,it wasn't about them nice guys, loving people or whatever. The girls reasoning were so frivolous: She related her love of them to anime and K-pop.( she should have waited for the Korean festival.) Even her friend told that those weren't good reasons in desiring Asian men.

    Nothing wrong with having a preference for people, but she shouldn't write of Black and other races of men like that. Maybe for Bria and say this respectfully,but sometimes we have go through things to help us understand what really counts in making good unions. Race should have nothing to do with how good/bad a person is. I don't see any differences in an Asian man wronging you than a Black one doing it. No excuses should be made with that.

    Just because A--shole wronged her doesn't mean she should right off all Asian men. If she dated a Latino man, Polynesian/Samoan or Native American man and if they wronged her , there is a chance that she may write of their races as well. Right now,it may hurt her and she will be blinded by hate for a while,but in the long run she will look back and say that that joker did her a favor.She doesn't need a loser who evaluates by their race. He'll reap what he'll sow. Who knows, the same White girl he craves may also tell him that she's looking for a Black man.

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    1. He'll reap what he'll sow. Who knows, the same White girl he craves may also tell him that she's looking for a Black man.

      Shit like that does often happen to people.

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  12. Yeah, it really sounds like her feelings for this guy were not just on the level of being friends. Things never really sound "that bad" when you're attracted to someone and it sound like this was the case of this young lady. I've seen and have been in this situation before. You want to think that the words are just words, they don't mean it, it was just a joke. You make excuse after excuse for him because you're attracted to him of whatever reason. And sometime it takes those small asshole-y moments to become a big one before you realize that he was really an asshole to you all along.

    When I see the "Well I don't know about Asian guys anymore type," it makes me wonder as to what was their general idea of Asian men if they had one at all. I know some when for whatever reasons have high expectations of Asian men and it doesn't occur to them that these guys can be well...dicks. Loser's come in all shapes and sizes.

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    1. "Loser's come in all shapes and sizes." Truth. Even the most rabid Pro-White Man BWE blog I found stressed the importance of vetting the daylights out of potential partners. Don't let the packaging fool you!

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  13. I still can't get over the hair comment....

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    1. When I read it, I instantly remembered a white girl from class (back in school) telling me the same thing, and saying that I should get a perm and then I said I didn't want to and she said "why not a weave then?". I was kinda like WTF but just stopped the conversation. And then I internally ranted when I came home. I don't think she would have appreciated a black girl telling her to get a 'fro. This happened 7 years ago and I still remember it.

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    2. I had a black guy I was dating say something similar. Then when I called him on it he tried to play if off like he was joking. I already found him annoying and that was just the nail in the coffin not to talk to him anymore.

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  14. Poor girl! I think that you ladies have already expounded clearly the point that ALL of any race/nationality/ethnicity of people are not going to be good or bad.

    The point about FWBs not working often is a good one. Feelings do get caught up, on either side, in MOST cases. The fallout can be terrible! Yes, under some circumstances it may work for some people, but that doesn't overrule the reality that for MOST women, it's a bad idea. Proceed with caution, if you decide to do it.

    The thing is that when you are emotionally vulnerable, like Brina was, is when you are most likely to take this kind of huge emotional risk (entering a FWB situation)!!! That partially accounts for the high flame-out rate for this arrangement, imho.

    Let's take it easy on judging Brina too harshly, though. I think lots of us have been guilty of letting an Asian man slide. I know I have. I remember a Japanese guy saying something to me that was borderline obscene on a date... in a very calm and deliberate manner. I probably would have clutched my pearls in horror and stomped out of the room in a huff if an American man (of any race) said that to me! But because he was so FINE... and had a very sexy masculine energy that made my panties wet... and because it was said in that sexy Japanese accent... I merely chuckled and took another sip of my drink (and felt even hornier for him). SMDH. Given a little time, though, I did realize that he was actually a D-bag. A sexy, fine-ass tall strong rugged Japanese D-BAG with an adorable accent. But a D-bag nonetheless. I had to cut him loose eventually, but I should have dropped the hammer when he showed his behind the first time. Live and learn.

    Part of it is racial- we may subconsciously think that an Asian man will be more respectful or less of a player than another man, even if we KNOW intellectually that this is BS racial stereotyping at work. Unpacking racial concepts like this is an ongoing process- we are all mired in messed up racial dreck in the US from cradle to grave and it takes WORK to recognize, unpack, and stay clear of that. Sometimes good and intelligent people still miss a spot. We need to stay vigilant about it for sure.

    However, a HUGE part of letting Asian men slide is simple human attraction! When a guy is looking good to you, and especially if he is laying pipe like an expert craftsman lol then you are apt to let him get away with a whole lot more foolishness. This is true of intra-racial relationships too. Don't you have girlfriends who date same-race men and put up with alllll manner of stuff that they really should NOT tolerate? It's the human condition to wear rose colored glasses when hormones are boiling.

    I agree that time alone to heal and get centered will be tremendously beneficial.

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    1. I know too many women who put up with all kinds of shit simply because:


      "But girl, he so damn fine..."

      "But he can fuck..."

      "He ain't that bad..."

      "I can change him..."

      Every last one of these chicks is unhappy as all get out. I can't be bothered. See, boo, we're not the two and I'm not the one. I don't give a rat fart how fine he is (and sex ain't even a consideration if he hasn't been properly vetted), or if others don't think he's that bad...he got one time to disrespect the kid and he's got to go. I'm too damn old to believe in fairy tales, teddy bear wishes or candy dreams.

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    2. Let's take it easy on judging Brina too harshly, though

      I'm right with you on this point.

      And also when you mention the subconscious...I've found quite a few (actually more than I expected) Black women online who are all about Blasian relationships guilty of stereotyping or placing Asian people into a monolith.

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  15. Amaya is right. She's dead on. A lot of us are getting to old for this shit. There is no dick in the world worth that kind of heartache. My tolerance for bullshit is pretty low.

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  16. I must confess, I do find the notion of Fubus to be quite possible. Theoretically, at least. But of course, emotions get in the way of things. Too often, and too frequently, tender feelings start to appear. Women are particularly susceptible to this. I read somewhere that in the act of sexual intercourse, the female body releases certain chemical compounds that allows a greater degree of responsiveness i.e. reactions of love.

    That having said, I agree with you Amaya (lovely name btw) Brina should have seen it coming. His comment on her hair should have sent alarm bells ringing in her head. And the Asshole! Don't even get me started on that one. Couldn't date her because she wasn't WHITE?! I gave a horrified laugh when I found out. Frankly I see that as nothing more than self-hatred / white worship. So he won't even consider one of his own then? Disgusting >:(

    But had she formed no emotional attachment, which she clearly did, to this fellow then it would have meant nothing to her if he said what he did. Sure, she might get pissed at the hair comment and the non-whiteness bit, but what she did instead was to let it affect her personally. Obviously she could not tell the difference between sex and making love. Pity :/

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    1. Too often, and too frequently, tender feelings start to appear. Women are particularly susceptible to this. I read somewhere that in the act of sexual intercourse, the female body releases certain chemical compounds that allows a greater degree of responsiveness i.e. reactions of love.

      I disagree, of course, but I'm speaking from personal experience.

      The people who can successfully maintain FWB relationships simply know how to go in with both eyes open. It has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation and everything to do with choosing a partner they know they don't see ANY possible future with.

      When I was a student in West Virginia (population 96% white and broke), I knew I'd eventually be getting out. Therefore, I wasn't putting down any roots. I made it clear it wasn't looking for a boyfriend. My body never made me feel love for any of these people. And when the guys realized that we were in an actual FWB, they backed away.

      Those of you who frequent the Black Girls Club recall that a former roommate of mine went through something similar, be the man felt the need to be in control of the relationship. It's what most men prefer, to have a woman they don't want wanting them, waiting with baited breath for even the tiniest shred of validation from him. They tend to go for the women they know can't handle a FWB arrangement, because they're intimidated by the ones who can (IMHO, of course).

      In Brina's situation, she was on the rebound and emotionally vulnerable. Asshole knew this. He also knew he was a Worshiper and had no serious desire to be with a black woman. Knowing all this, he was most likely also aware that a FWB with her would be a bad idea and Brina could end up hurt, but he didn't care.

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    2. You're right Ankh. A real would not have taken advantage of her. Time heals all wounds of course. Hopefully she'll take some time for herself to do some self-care. I know it can be rough, and we get lonely sometimes, but I'm sure she'll be fine. She needs to stay close to good friends and family. It definitely hurts before it heals.

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  17. I recently heard from Brina and she wanted me to thank you guys for the support and advice.

    She said that she truly didn't want to be anything more than friends with him, and he violated her concept of the word "friend" with his asinine comments and retarded behavior. In her mind, you don't act that way or say those things to someone you consider a friend.

    That being said, we live in a society nowadays where you have to vet your friends.

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  18. No offense but this Brina chick has some hardcore insecurities within herself she first needs to tackle. One thing to date, befriend and have sex with a man that thinks so little of you and be actually offended by his behavior. When you damn well know any guy who is on a FWB level with you is sleazy in some shape or forum and/or has a low moral.

    In the fact she was hurt by this guy only amplified her own inner insecurities even more. I say this "you are what you fuck, there for be picky" She is learning an important lesson and needs to find a deeper sense of self reasoning and respect in all this. And not have every Asian male she encounters pay the price for what this asshole did.

    I think that is the problem with people today, we like taking advantage of one another. Than blame the other person when we finally realize how much we allow this to happen. But more so how we personally take advantage of our own emotions and that what makes us feel worse.

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  19. My question is this. If Asshole's endgame is a white chick, then why is he fucking around wasting his time bedding a black woman?

    He know he's not going to marry them or isn't attracted to them or whatever bullshit excuse he was using, what is he after? You mean to tell me he can't find any white females to use as FWB?

    Or maybe he's tired being told the same shit he's telling Brina and is just looking for an excuse to dish it out rather than be on the receiving end of it.

    Obviously he knows he ain't shit which is why he has to "slum" in the first place.

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  20. You mean to tell me he can't find any white females to use as FWB?

    Or maybe he's tired being told the same shit he's telling Brina and is just looking for an excuse to dish it out rather than be on the receiving end of it.


    Alas, 'tis the way of the Worshiper.

    And what's hilarious about this particular thought process is that Worshipers (of all shades) who are waiting (in vain) for their magical white girl think they're somehow superior to black women.

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