7.23.2013

Xia Junsu's "Chocolate Girl"

For the past year or two I have almost completely removed myself from the K-pop fandom. After years of engaging with the anti-Black fandom, encountering the Black "oppa didn't mean to be racist" fans then Jenny Hyun's virulent racism to the blackface, and so much more, I decided it was high time I found another pop culture to invest my attention and time in.

However as I still follow a select number of people who are into K-pop, I am well aware that Xia Junsu of JYJ has released a new song called "Chocolate Girl" that is part of his album Incredible. Now my hopes were nonexistent even before I heard the song and saw the lyrics, but I found it fascinating that a large number of Black K-pop fans are convinced that he is singing about a Black woman, and even possibly hinting at a relationship with Telisha Shaw. Could this be a reply to Telisha's "Our Secret"? Well I'll say that if it is, "Chocolate Girl" comes a little too late. "Our Secret" was released in 2011 and subsequently led to racist JYJ fans rabidly attacking Telisha from all corners of the interweb. Telisha was attacked due to her closeness to JYJ, specifically to Junsu, and I don't recall them doing anything public in her support, although they may have had Telisha's back in private and did not want to risk asking their fans to lay off the racism.

Here are the lyrics to Junsu's "Chocolate Girl";
Wait a minute,
something just flashed
When she, who is dazzling, passed by
Her dark skin is really perfect
She is like sweet chocolate

Wait a minute, I smell something sweet
Did you put on chocolate?
Stop tickling me and driving me crazy
You make me dream even more
It touches the tip of my nose,
your sweet scent

My Chocolate Girl (x2)
It feels like I’m dreaming,
I’m a little scared
As I’m absentmindedly staring at you,
I might be late for my plans

I really want you,
please don’t go right now

You sweetly,
vexingly, ticklishly
Dangerously, softly,
drive me crazy (Source)
From reading the lyrics I think we should ask first if Junsu is really talking about a Black woman at all. Despite the ambiguity of the lyrics, I have bolded the line that is relevant. "Her dark skin is really perfect"/ 까만 저 피부가 정말로 완벽해 which some have translated it as "her black skin is really perfect". With the help of a Korean friend I have confirmed that both are indeed correct. I asked a Korean friend and he confirmed that the dark and black are interchangeable here.Yet I still question if Junsu is talking about a Black woman because...in yet another K-pop song "Ice Cream" (lyrics here), Hyuna uses the same term to refer to herself. She compares her dark skin to chocolate ice cream; "Chocolate ice cream like my dark skin"/ 초콜렛 ice cream 내 까만 피부처럼



This is Hyuna, I believe during promotions for "Ice Cream" where she was tanned.

What this suggests is that there are several ways of viewing dark skin, perhaps in the world of K-pop, "dark" refers to Hyuna. Some fans have concluded that the chocolate in this song refers to the woman's skin tone, but in my humble opinion the lyrics show that is is referring to the woman's scent. "She is like sweet chocolate", not "her skin dark is like chocolate" (I am going to ignore the issues in using food as a descriptor of skin tone).

I am not entirely sure "Chocolate Girl" is speaking of Telisha or to a Black woman period. Although it is fine with me that Black fans may be overreaching and jumping into conclusions, I don't mean to harsh your squee. I am also not denying that a K-pop star could possibly find a Black woman attractive (if I got a dollar for every time a Korean man has called me cute, beautiful, gorgeous, pretty, tried to hit on me I'd actually be a millionaire). Only Junsu knows the woman he is referring to in this song (is she "dark" like tanned Hyuna or dark like Telisha?) either way I am tired of seeing Black K-pop fangirls roll over in joy and excitement when songs with ambiguous lyrics like this come out. I am tired of guess work, the questions, the debates. I'll wait until a K-pop star pens a song that is explicitly about a Black woman and then features Black models/actresses in the music video.

50 comments:

  1. I also think that this song has nothing to do with black women.

    "Dark" skin when it refers to Korean people means tan skin like you said, and there's a sexual fantasy about it, Lee Hyori is Korea's #1 sex symbol and she's tanned. Hyorin is tanned too and is known for her sexiness. Hyuna tanned her skin for her MV just to play the tanned skin fantasy. "Chocolate" is just a playful word to use in this context. There's the singer Wheesung who has a song named "Choco Luv", the lyrics are sensual/sexuall and there was nothing about skin color or black women in it, I don't see why it should anyway. Like choco abs, it refers to chocolate tablets, not to black men.

    Yeah, I don't understand black kpop fans overreactions too...I'm not a kpop fan as I prefer other music genres so I tend to have zero expectations with kpop, I'm detached from it, especially after reading some bad stuff. I mean, the music is good but I don't expect anything from them, maybe some respect of other cultures but even that is not always the case sadly. I do criticize the bad side of kpop and I don't justify ignorant behaviour. If a Korean celeb has a black girl in his MV in a respectful way then I'll be like "That's cool" but that's it, I ain't gonna conclude that he's really into black women and secretly wants to marry one. He could, but I won't focus on it unless he flats out state it.

    Myra

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If a Korean celeb has a black girl in his MV in a respectful way then I'll be like "That's cool"

      Cosign. I want some tender love story as opposed to some "I met a hot sexy girl at a club and this will be a one night stand" type of thing. Not that the latter is bad, but we need a bit of diversity in how Black women are portrayed in these music videos.

      Delete
  2. This:

    either way I am tired of seeing Black K-pop fangirls roll over in joy and excitement when songs with ambiguous lyrics like this come out. I am tired of guess work, the questions, the debates. I'll wait until a K-pop star pens a song that is explicitly about a Black woman and then features Black models/actresses in the music video.

    *bows to the mistress*

    The song is out; now it needs a vid (kinda annoyed one isn't out already) and that vid will tell us what we need to know.

    In the meantime, I remain a non-fan of this genre and unsurprised by its BS, namely this right here:

    Could this be a reply to Telisha's "Our Secret"? Well I'll say that if it is, "Chocolate Girl" comes a little too late. "Our Secret" was released in 2011 and subsequently led to racist JYJ fans rabidly attacking Telisha from all corners of the interweb. Telisha was attacked due to her closeness to JYJ, specifically to Junsu, and I don't recall them doing anything public in her support, although they may have had Telisha's back in private and did not want to risk asking their fans to lay off the racism.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think that black Kpop fans and Kpop fans in general are rather thirsty. The second an idol or celebrity has anything to do with a black woman they are all over it. It's pretty well known that there are plenty of Asian men who are attracted to black women, so what's the big deal? Do they have to consistently seek validation in celebrities all the way across the planet? lol If this song was about a black woman, then what? Will the heavens part and angels descend? I don't think so...

    I enjoy listening to Kpop and all, but that fandom is too much for me.

    Oh and speaking of black girls in videos Jay Park had one in his video recently.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a little harsh, looking down on a group of people that large.

      Delete
    2. Tell me about it...as for me, I'm looking at it from a socio-political pov. If many Black women are looking for people all the way from the other side of the world for validation, then there's something deeper then just being thirsty. In many places, Black women are the least wanted groups mainly due to to stereotypes "they have attitudes" "they're loud" "they're angry" or they're mostly seen as sexual objects/fantasies/fetishes. I feel like a lot of Black women are misunderstood because they see things a certain way, they have certain expectations, and they have a different way of doing things that doesn't fit the mold. As a Black woman, I feel like they react this way to kpop songs because there's the idea of being loved and wanted; it's like "oh finally, someone that appreciates & understands me for who I am, what I am, etc..."

      This is not to say that there aren't many with fetishes and are thirsty like they're on a constant lookout for any Korean dude because it reminds them of so and so- that's obviously wrong. Personally, I'm glad that I found out about kpop because that made me wanna look more into SK culture. Getting to know the culture gives me a little insight into the mentality of Korean men, what they value, they're sense of humor, spirituality, etc...as long as it's in tune to what my beliefs and values are. So obviously, I don't know much about SK culture (apart from Kpop- which I find highly hypocritical due to their heavy use of Black culture yet never giving us our dues, kdramas, some documentaries) and I've never lived there but it has widened my options as far as companionship.

      Delete
    3. Name please?

      @Anon- If many Black women are looking for people all the way from the other side of the world for validation, then there's something deeper then just being thirsty. In many places, Black women are the least wanted groups mainly due to to stereotypes "they have attitudes" "they're loud" "they're angry" or they're mostly seen as sexual objects/fantasies/fetishes.

      Yes its something deeper because they are not getting it here at home (USA) where SOME men including black men worship women of other races. Yet put down black women for the very things they claim to love in other women. Where are Black women the least wanted? I hope you are not getting this from those "studies" that were done by whites. Those stereotypes came from SOME of our own men who did not want us dating anyone else. Along with reality shows that further stereotype us.

      Delete
    4. I think it comes from Black fans wanting to see themselves in the entertainment they consume. This is absolutely valid. Naturally I won't look at K-pop expecting to see Black people in it, I'd expect to see Koreans but when the default choice for "international" is white (whether in K-pop, or Bollywood, or Nigerian movies), then Black fans are going to start wondering why there aren't more Black "international" faces.

      K-pop seriously appropriates Black American culture to the extreme, the least they could do is show some appreciate to Black fans. We know that there are Black faces behind the scenes, producing the music etc but we need more in front of the screen.

      Delete
    5. @Angie- my name's Arie, but I agree with you that many women are not feeling the love home but are we just limiting this to Black American women? The reason I ask is because I have friends from the Caribbean (Jamaica and Barbados) that are into kpop and would love to see a Black female (at least) as a love interest in a MV because even in their own countries "Black" aka "Dark-skinned women are too much to handle", "they need discipline" etc...most men are looking at the light-skinned "beautiful" sistas (no hate on light-skinned sistas). So I'm not following any studies, it's a general concensus of what I feel, see and experienced.

      @comicyoruba- I totally agree with you in that if it's normal for Blacks to want to see themselves on an international level. Kpop is very hypocritical and as much as some of us may still like some idols, maybe it's best if we shut the door in their faces because they want to be global but without acknowledging the existence of the people who's culture they continuously exploit for their "Hallyu Wave."

      Delete
    6. @A

      I have to because the women I know from the Caribbean(dark skinned sisters from all over) are not into or even know what Kpop is. While they face some of the same stereotypes as black American women I can't vouch for the Kpop aspect.

      Delete
    7. @Angie- I see what you mean. On another note, I mentioned earlier about kpop appropriating Black culture and I wanted to add, there is this new kpop girl group called Wassup and their shtick (for lack of a better word) is twerking! They debuted this week and I feel like this might be problematic and I'm borderline offended. I'll have to look deeper into this though. Does anyone think any of the narrators would be willing to write an essay about this? I'm not sure what's the best way to contact them. I know Ankhesen has mentioned she's distancing herself from kpop and it's really up to her or any of the narrators to speak about this but I feel like some light should be shed unto this because this goes above kpop.

      Delete
    8. Arie, input your name in the Name/Url field, but leave the Url blank.

      Delete
    9. there is this new kpop girl group called Wassup and their shtick (for lack of a better word) is twerking!

      Oh...no.

      Delete
    10. @ Ankhesen, thank you for the tip, how did you know? lol. Also, oh...yes, I'm not sure if I can post links on here but if you go on YT and type "Wassup twerking" vids will come up. I'm not even sure if this worth talking about anymore, I'm speechless; maybe I'll just ignore their existence :/

      Delete
  4. lol If this song was about a black woman, then what? Will the heavens part and angels descend? I don't think so...

    Thank you. All it took was one song for folks to forget the contract.

    Oh and speaking of black girls in videos Jay Park had one in his video recently.

    And he hasn't been the only one. Like...not by a long shot.

    So we have to ask: is it really a big deal anymore? I'm old. When I started this blog with a loyal few, our "Cookies" tab had far too few entries. Now, cookies spring up on the web almost weekly. So what is up with all the thirst? Or is it just a K-Pop thing?

    Because like I said before, if you're gonna be popstar, that's one thing thing. If you're gonna specifically be a K-popstar, then your K-fans call dibs; you're in their country, speaking their language, and they expect to come first.

    So if your K-fans have dibs, then what is everybody getting so thirsty for?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I'll believe it when I see it.

    I agree.I think that the minute a K pop singer mentions something positive in the realm of darkness, some Black fans assume that it's about them.For all we know he could have..as Anonymous said...be a "darker skinned"Korean/Asian woman. I remembered reading a K pop news article where a popular K pop artist referred to a female Kpop singer as being Cocoa. Visually, the girl was a bit lighter than honey but she was classified as being "dark" by her peers. For all we know Junsu could have been talking about an Indian, Latina, Samoan or a tanned White woman.

    I don't think is ready for Blacks to be a part of the Kpop community. I was thinking about this when a Kpop called SuPearls was supposed to come out. Time kept passing by for them to come out .The next thing I know ,the group disbanded. I could be wrong, but I really didn't think that the promoter had no intention on promoting SuPearls. It was a ploy and I wouldnt doubt that one of the members had something to do with it because she's a Blasian. She was never high on fan list. She was always near the bottom of her game though she wasn't the worst singer. It may take time for singers to become great but one thing I've noticed with potential Black and non Black Kpop singers.The White ones come out far quicker than the Black ones (if they ever make it) though they'll tell you otherwise.

    I'm like this: if the Kpop industry don't want my support.. fine because I'll go to people that do.Kpop is what it is.They want to be internationally known yet they don't want our support. I have read numerous notes about Black girls who have began to have self esteem issues because of this. Kpop isn't worth who them sinking below. To me, its to juvenile and even if that wasn't the case,I don't believe in supporting ho have hinted that they aren't interested in me. Far as I'm concerned, K pop will never get off of the ground with their anti Black mentality.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Typo..the second paragraph ,first line. Meant to say "I don't think that Kpop is ready for....." and take out the "who" in the last paragraph in the 4th line.

      Delete
    2. "For all we know Junsu could have been talking about an Indian, Latina, Samoan or a tanned White woman."

      > Exactly. It could be any non pale woman.

      A ploy? I'd like to know what you think about it. Well, I prefer not analyzing this as we'll probably never know the whole truth but one possibility is that Lee Hi, who was a part of a group, became suuuper popular as a soloist so YG decided to focus on her and then lost interest in the Supearls as he had proof Lee Hi could do very well by herself. Perhaps he planned this from the beginning, who knows.

      As for whiteness being favoured in kpop, I've read one translated comment on netizenbuzz and it was kinda epic (as it was originally written by a Korean person and liked by many others). Netizenbuzz translates Korean comments that are then commented by international fans.

      Quote:
      4. [+630, -14] You guys are always calling white mixed people pretty and how you're jealous but black mixed people get called dirty? And then you hypocrites go and whine and complain about being discriminated against when you go to foreign countries... Such hypocrites, I swear.
      [End of quote]

      I don't know any white kpop singers (except Olivia) though the half white ones are usually models and actors.

      As for the song "Chocolate Girl", I see "chocolate" as a way to intensify his attraction towards the girl, it may also be a way to sexualize her skin tone as the girl seems irresistable and hynotizing. That's what caught my attention in this song, is this really personal lyrics then? It looks pretty "standard" to me (following the conventional ideas and lyrics). Did Junsu write them? Associating physical attraction/body with food is not uncommon in kpop. I'm not a fan of that but *shrugs* I'm focusing more on the chocolate than on the skin color of the girl lol I guess I'm not really interested in the latter. I agree with Dandelion who said that her (the choco girl) being black won't change anything. I don't follow Junsu so even if he said it was a black girl I wouldn't become a fan just for that. And wouldn't it be a bit creepish if his song was very obvious about being about a black girl? Or any ethnic group.

      Myra

      Delete
    3. Myra,

      No,I don't have any definitive proof that it may be a ploy but I wouldn't be surprised if it may have been part of it.At this time, I just cannot see Kpop putting a Black/Blasian girl in their entertainment industry ..at least mainstream. If it isn't what isn't acceptable in Korean culture about Black/darker skin it will be about some of those evil fangirls they'll worry about. Promoters seem to be more worried about what they will think than standing up to knowing what is right to make Kpop a competitive genre in the international co munity. Other than Tiger Jk,I'm not seeing them do that. To me when you're not speaking up against the problem, why should Black people support you.I seem to notice how much more White people are defended by them.Though I'm not against that, they should be fair about it.

      Korea has a lot of potential to be a major powerhouse of the world, but some things their entertainment industry don't get.Internationalism isn't just about White people. I'm not trying to tell them that they should let people rain on their culture but it is some of their entertainment execs who want to be recognized by the world. There is nothing wrong with Koreans and their culture but every time they mention how "international".it doesn't look like me...a Black woman or another POC.That right there tells me who their intended audience is.

      There are several mixed race Koreans that are in Kpop music and dramas. Just recently, there was an all girl group that consisted of one White Frenchgirl and the rest being Asian. There was a group ...or possibly was a girl group named Chocolat OMG(Its ssid that Jenny Hyuh wrote their music.She may have hurt them)Im really dumbfounded about the name of that group because NONE of the group members were Black. I think a couple of then were Amerasian and the rest were also Asian. The videos dramas ...I have yet to see a Black being on there.

      Lol....I'm laughing at the post you drew up from tht irate Kpop fan.With the most downgraded Black girl, what on heavens sake would make that fool think that the fans want more light skin ? Why do this chick think some of these girls get .There is a difference between recognition and envy. Idk others, but what makes this person think that Black women aren't beautiful.I guess she thinks that being non-Black means she's beautiful. I would tell her otherwise.Seems like that girl is insecure.

      I've never been a fan of Junsu. Now I did like ,listening to 2pm's hands up,but that was it. There was another Korean group that I listened to..I don't think they're Kpop(judging by their music, they have some potential to be recognized) but they had a song called "She Is" and it was a beautiful song. I'm too old for pop music of any kind but if I were into pop music, open wouldn't be high on my list. To me, theres a lot of refurbished singing and mostly they aren't to inclusive of minorities in their industry unless you're White/light skinned. I'm mostly in J dramas, and their music..though not into their pop scene as well. Maybe one day Kpop will get the message about being international. For the time being, I don't pay it any attention.

      Delete
    4. My reply is for M and Dandelion)
      One of the differences between Japan and Korea is that Japan has been a rich country and open to the world for a long time and it's music market is one of the biggest in the world, right after the US. So it could explain why kpop is so narrow in its mindset.
      I've always believed that Miss Monday was full Japanese. Now I can't back it up but this pic shows that she can't be half black: http://shibuyareggaesai.com/Archive/2010/img/Contents/Artist/MissMonday.jpg Her root hair is too straight and smooth. So her fro is a wig or a weave. She might be half Chinese or Taiwanese, who knows, like Jamosa who has a tan to rock her RnB style.

      And just clarifying my previous post...I was saying that there is a form of fetishization/exotism of dark/tan skin tone in the song, which is not really a good thing when it's very frequent in that music industry. I also found out that Junsu didn't write these lyrics, he didn't even compose the song. All of this makes me think that the lyrics weren't genuine and personal, it's a trend. He was lusting after her, not declaring his love for her so it's limiting (not bad, but limiting). I also saw 3 fangirls commenting on the lyrics and calling themselves "chocolate girl", saying they were happy about the song as they were latina/black girls. Why would you call yourself chocolate girl? A bit weird. I'm glad that Korean lyricist don't associate chocolate with dark skin tone or black people. Yes, Chocolat girl group (they're no longer active) didn't have any black members but it's a good thing!! "chocolate" just means exotism and sensuality for them from what I understand, and that's OK to me.

      @ Jamasian: There's also probably a need for reassurance that their favourite Asian singers are not racists due to some bad stuff in kpop and Korean society. Now I can understand that. But overreacting, nah.

      Delete
    5. Another thing that really irritates me is how how some K-pop stars can tan themselves lightly and then refer to themselves a "dark", "chocolate", "cocoa" as a compliment while real, actual dark-skinned K-pop stars get made fun of all the time and basically get treated like shit. I saw Bora from SISTAR on KBS world the other day and I was shocked by how *brown* she was in the sea of paleness. Seeing her live in the interview made me believe that she may be whitewashed in their music videos because I never noticed how brown her skin is. Seeing her was a breath of fresh air, I don't think she's dark from tanning because a few days ago I came across a post on tumblr that was on how someone from SNSD (I think Hyoyeon?) ridiculed Bora's dark skin by suggesting that people who are dark shouldn't be wearing make-up or something along those lines. Like wtf, it was ridiculous.

      "...but they had a song called "She Is" and it was a beautiful song."

      The group you're talking about is Clazziquai. They are not really K-pop, I consider them indie.

      @Myra

      It's not surprising that Junsu didn't write the song, but it confirms that the lyrics were not genuine and personal like you've said. I found it limiting that it was talking about love, not lust, not companionship, not his soul mate. Like you, I'm happy that chocolate isn't being associated with Black people or dark skin, we're already sexualised enough as it is.

      Delete
    6. @Cosmicyoruba

      I saw part of an interview Hugh Jackman did in Korea for his new movie. I was shocked that the girl (I can't remember what group she is in) who did the interview was literally whiter than him! I'm talking Casper! Granted I know he surfs and all that so of course he is tan, but dang. She looked like a corpse next to him. It was creepy.

      Delete
    7. Cosmic

      Thanks for the info.I couldn't think of their names to save my neck. I guess because of me not listening to them for a while.

      Delete
  6. I will have to check this song out. I don't really keep up with Junsu much ever since JYJ split from TVXQ. As for the issue with the fans, I think its esteem issues. We want to be accepted or acknowledged. I've seen way more involvement of white girls or white/Asian mixed girls in music videos and being named as ideal types of male kpop stars. The only black female that has been named an ideal type from a kpop star is Beyonce. Other than that, all I've seen or heard is white actresses or models being praised. Some just wanna know know that black women are desired. I guess when some black fans find something like this, they take it as them having a chance to be with kpop idols romantically. I'm not going to lie, I was like this when I first got into kpop, but have eased off more as years went by. This will hopefully happen to them also. A lot of these fans are still pretty young like maybe teens to mid-twenties. As a black kpop fan for almost four years now, I agree with the part about kpop artists wanting international recognition, but really not wanting anything to do with us or more specifically fans that are Poc.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I once a teen (the good old days). Back then I liked Rock and R&B.For me, El Debarge was going to be my hubby... lol! (After a heirem of kids, wife beating and drug usage... I would have to run away from that!)the posters of him and other group was on my bedroom wall. If it wasn't El it was of course MJ.I thought about one of my brothers classmates. Everybody knew her from grade 8(no Jr high back then)to 12 because she was such a MJ fan. She was more than a fan of his ..she was over the top about him. Its like he couldn't do without him...she had his jacket, records, posters and ran away from her parents home to go to his concerts. You couldn't say anything bad about MJ, she would be ready to fight you.When she found out that his hair being burned, she wanted to kill herself thinking that he was going to die at the time... no joke. She was seriously troubled.

      When I thought about those fangirls, I thought about my brothers former classmate.How much she let her better thoughts become impaired. To read about Black girls esteem being depleted by this is sad. What they're doing is like a dog begging for a bone.. waiting.. hoping.. that a beautiful Black woman would be a part of the music video or drama. You can't tell them anything at the moment because they want to visually see change.

      Big Bang...ooohh..very infamous in excluding Blacks and POCs from their videos.Who can forget the time when their production company asked for POCs when they end up having nothing but White girls in their videos? Each year, when K pop videos are made Black girls always want to be in it.Why?how many times will some of them will get it..THEY DON'T WANT YOU IN THEIR STUFF! If that was the case it would look like Japanese entertainment. At least you see a lot more POCs in their music videos.
      I

      Delete
  7. I think that J hip hop and RnB is light years ahead when it comes to the inclusion of black people. Koda Kumi and AI have done collaborations with black RnB singers. Koda Kumi has included black men in her videos. There are quite a few mixed/Blasian Japanese RnB singers (Crystal Kay, a couple of members of Exile, Thelma Aoyama, Miss Monday and probably more). I really believe that Japanese RnB singers actually do show an appreciation for the culture and the people that originally created the music that they now create and enjoy. While all of this may not be mainstream, it still EXISTS. Now, like I said, the heavens won't part, but it's still nice, isn't it? Heck I think that could be whole post

    Kpop on the other hand will appropriate until their faces turn blue but won't even feature one black girl in their video. I was reading those links and it's sad that Big Bang magically couldn't find any black models for their video, despite shooting in an area that has plenty of black models. My general attitude is a disaffected one towards Kpop. I was obsessed for about five minutes but then it got old. I still listen to it, but am not a part of the fandom and I will not be jumping out of my seat the instance one of these Korean idols even glances at a black woman like many of the fans do. It is after all, music made by Koreans for Koreans(*ahem*andwhatevercountrytheycanmilkmoneyoutof*ahem*), so we really can't expect anything. So ultimately, it really is a non-issue. These Kpop fans need a drink of water to lay off that thirst.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have noticed the same phenomenon with Japanese music and with Japanese individuals. Obviously I can't claim to have taken a representative sample. BUT I have noticed that Japanese people I know are much more open and accepting of black people. It's like Koreans are desperately trying to crap on blacks because of some insecurity of their position in the world. Japanese feel more confident and relaxed about matters and aren't playing defense to the same extent. Of course there is white worship in Japan, I'm not saying there isn't. But there isn't the same need to piss on black people in order to scrounge up some approval from whites.

      I visited both countries and I found that I got gas face, side eye etc about ten times as much in Korea as I did in Japan.I got some blank stares in Japan but the only balled up faces I saw were from other blacks women lol.

      That being said, I take people as INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. I know one J-guy who is the biggest white worshipping coon ever born smdh. Whereas I know some Koreans who are open minded and not racist against blacks. Each person has a journey to travel, and sometimes we meet them at one spot along the road and we conclude they are doomed to be there in perpetuity. It's a falsehood, and I want to be more compassionate to people who are caught up in white worship... just not to the point where I pay them to crap on me.

      Delete
  8. I am quite sure he's talking about butterscotch and not chocolate. haha I love Junsu and the rest of the original DBSK, though. Now, I feel bad for anyone over the top for celebrities, but I think many of the black Kpop fans are looking for their inclusion because of the way a lot of it is indeed black music and sometimes actually soulful and skillful enough to think a black person was singing. Then when you consistently see anything but black people in the music videos, it sucks. Watching sitcoms in the states with mostly a lack of black sucks too.

    I don't think it's all about trying to marry a star for real. It also causes problems in the dating ring because with lack of representation comes the idea that something is unacceptable. Even though we (should) know that men are men everywhere, it helps to NOT feel like you're a secret and can't be loved in the public eye. If you're going to hint at all of my qualities being awesome, why not just show up with me on your arm for the family dinner?

    Some seem to want to imply that blacks should stick to their own country and "place" because they'll never have a shot at boxed in Korea. But for the ones that are attracted to Koreans for non superfluous reasons, that seems pretty harsh. It's possible that they aren't liked by anyone around them or are constantly in an environment where they have good reason to believe that they are considered undesirable. I feel like every time our race likes has high hopes for another in love we're considered thirsty and with each rebuttal we're angry.

    In any event, it usually feels good to see my skin tone on a big screen or being spoken of highly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In any event, it usually feels good to see my skin tone on a big screen or being spoken of highly.

      I completely agree with this. And I guess this is why I can't stand the ambiguity, the guesswork, I want my skin tone to be on the screen and spoken of highly in positive, reaffirming ways.

      Delete
  9. Hmmmmm....With the large amount of appropriation KPop is saturated in, it makes me wonder if black kpop fans should even want to be included. Especially with the general dislike/lack of respect the genre seems to have with us as actual human beings. So then is blase the sort of attitude to have O.o)?

    And of those who do include us (Jay Park, Se7en, and Rain to an extent)....is it all just an idle dabbling? An indulging in their curiosity? Could it be a casual (but genuine) general interest? In kpop is there even a difference between the two?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No thoughts from anyone?

      Delete
    2. For Se7en and Rain, I believe they're just curious. Since Jay Park is from Seattl and is more used to being around poc, his interest could be genuine. There are some kpop stars who do give respect and credit.

      Delete
    3. @Sarai

      I think if Jay Park has interest he would have acted on it by now and maybe he has. Since he is based in Korea though he is probably dating Korean women. Ankh said a long time ago that the bottom line is money so he probably won't date one publicly because it could hurt his money intake.

      Delete
    4. Exactly. The moment of truth will arrive, when career/money/popularity are no longer an issue.

      When these guys hit their late thirties/early forties and start settling down, we'll know.

      Delete
    5. I don't blame them to be honest. I don't like ANYBODY that much to where its going to mess with my money. Pure and simple.

      Delete
  10. Another thing some of these Black female fans need to remember is that they K-Pop industry is patently aware of their existence, and the potential cash which comes from that fandom.

    That being said, the industry - not necessarily the individual idols - seems more interested in finding ways to profit from Black fandom, without actually catering to it. In other words, the industry wants to have its cake and eat it too.

    Pssst, ladies...take a quick break. Skip to the scene at the end.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think Kpop would have a massive coronary if one of their idols did THAT in a video!

      Delete
    2. Another thing some of these Black female fans need to remember is that they K-Pop industry is patently aware of their existence, and the potential cash which comes from that fandom.

      Tell me about this! Today I was fortunate to attend a K-pop dance competition in Abuja during which I found out that last year a Nigerian dance group flew all the way to Seoul to participate in the same competition (it is held yearly I believe). That Nigerian group came THIRD overall while the first two were from other Asian countries.

      Basically there is no way the K-pop industry doesn't know about the existence of a Black fandom. The Korean government is actively trying to market K-pop and K-dramas in Africa!

      The winners of the competition today are a really awesome group of ladies who danced excellently to SHINee's Lucifer. They will be heading to South Korea in September and I just wonder what kind of reaction they will get (the team last year were all men) and how far they will make it in the competition. They will be representing not only Nigeria, but Africa as a whole, I'm going to closely follow the K-pop dance competition at Gangwon this year...

      Delete
    3. @ Lesa

      So maybe the black fangirls need to switch genres. Which leads us to....

      @ CosmicYoruba

      Basically there is no way the K-pop industry doesn't know about the existence of a Black fandom. The Korean government is actively trying to market K-pop and K-dramas in Africa!

      Statistics continue to state that women are more likely than men to consume such products. So the target audience - women - is highly specified.

      Ergo, how do you profit - in the long-term - from pretty Asian guys singing love songs and romancing pretty Asian women...to a black female audience?

      You don't. You can't. And ambiguity buys you nothing.

      Delete
    4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czQ2dnVU7gE Saw this today. Can't help, but be happy for her

      Delete
    5. @Ankh

      I don't think they will. Think about it how many young girls do you see screaming for R&B artists here in the States? Those artists get regulated to an oldie station and concerts for "mature" audiences. So I can't see many of the Kpop youngsters listening to it. If they had younger artists then maybe. I mean I didn't appreciate Luther Vandross until I was older. I think as long as there is a fresh crop of young girls getting into Kpop they will have an audience with Black (or any American) girls. It will die out though. When I was young I was into the Puerto Rican version of Kpop and though it lasted years after I got over it. It did die out. I say give Kpop another ten years if that much.

      Delete
    6. @everyone: good points! Thanks for the interesting info Cosmicyoruba, and I agree with one of your earlier comments above about double standards regarding dark skin in Korea.

      Delete
  11. CeCe,

    Good point. I don't believe in going into spots where I'm not wanted. I'm not a Kpop fan ,but I don't think I would want to be I it.Sure, some people will Kpop belongs to Korea and that is good,but as I've said in a prior post,their industry is trying to promote their groups..wanting their guys to be international but their idea of being international isn't very diverse at all. Sometimes, I wonder do some people in the Pop industry knows that some of these girls want to be Pop idols and just play with their minds knowing full well that they're not fully wanted.. of course unless if they're White.

    So far, K entertainment haven't got the message yet. As long as they're going to run their business the way they are,they will not get any where. Even in the real world.. it's impossible just to be about one group of people Iike that. I was looking about Queen and how they became an international sensation(still love those guys .I had no idea that Freddy Mercury was Indian). One of the things I found interesting about the group was that it was Black people who put them to international fame because a lot of them thought that they were Black .Just imagine if they would have said that they only wanted White fans to listen to them.

    Some people take Black supporters for granted, I guess because they think White fans rules everything but these days things aren't what they used to be in terms of what is or isn't popular in the entertainment world. Kpop cannot take POCs for granted and think they will be on top with Beyonce (some Kpop stars really believe that they are) it don't work that way.

    I could be wrong but I see a gradual decline with Kpop. They don't seem as excited about it as in years past. If Kpop wants to get ahead in the music industry, then they should get with the ball game by 1) learning what international music really is 2)stop treating your over 20 singers like babies 3)take chances and use you own judgment about somethings. I think that some of these Kpop execs should talk with famous execs from around the world and ask why are their singers successful. As long as it will be about just White fans only, you're going nowhere and that is the living truth.



    ReplyDelete
  12. I used to be really into KPop, but the anti-BW vibe wore me down a lot. Now, I only open my purse for artists who show some reciprocity. For example, I bought Jay Park's album because he featured a black woman in his video. Far East Movement isn't Korean (they're American) but the same concept applies. They featured a black model as the love interest in their Rocketeer video and have continued to show respect and appreciation for black women. Therefore, I will show my support for them.

    I find that Kpop music is not really that good. Nice beats sometimes, but it's pop music. Not known for its quality. So I'm not clutching at ambiguous crumbs like Black Pearl by EXO-K or Chocolate Girl or whatever little teaser BS they throw our way. Since they want white women so damned bad, fine. Let white women buy their music.I'm not angry or anything; I'm just recognizing the situation for what it is. I'm not up for getting pimped. Hallyu knows from example that multitudes of black women will support artists who refuse to reciprocate. It's the same paradigm we've seen in the American hip hop and rap genres. Take black women's money and then worship light, bright or white women. I opt out in either case. I'm not paying anyone to turn their nose up at me.

    This dynamic is one of the reasons why I stopped studying Korean and stopped even considering working in SK. Instead, I've been studying Japanese (and dating Japanese men) in preparation for a career in Japan.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, I'm replying to myself lol! I just wanted to add that the main draw that Kpop offers me is an accessible commodification of Asian male sexuality for the female gaze. In other words, Hallyu has unlocked the secret recesses of my brain and figured out how to make me wet, and they offer it up in spades. I'm an old head. Time was, I had to troll gay male sex sites to get a gander at some sexy pics of Asian men. SMDH. Now, Kpop provides a variety of sexy Korean men who are doing body rolls, licking their lips, and moving their hips like they KNOW what's up. Right there on youtube I can find condensed versions of this material. It's like my version of porn. It's hard to find any other SFW source that can replace it. (Open to suggestions here....)

      So, even though Kpop is riddled with flaws, it offers a service that I had been desperately lacking for years.
      As much as I hate the white worship and the black bashing... I'm glad I don't have to hit up Nakedrice dot com to get my fix anymore. Again, I welcome any suggestions for similarly sexy material featuring Asian men. For now, I watch the perving on kpop series on youtube like I'm getting paid to do it lol (slinks back to yt to watch part 2 for the umpteenth time)

      Delete
    2. @Joyful

      Preach! I can't see supporting something or someone who doesn't reciprocate. The fact that so many black women will defend (much like they do with American artists) the treatment boggles the mind.

      Delete
  13. I doubt its about that dancer Telsiha Shaw (sorry if I spelled her name wrong) but they stopped being friends ever since she talked back about Cassies because one thing JYJ doesn't really tolerate. Chocolate girl most likely isn't about a black girl, its more leaning to a dark Asian girl but if its a black girl doubt its Telisha they haven't spoke in a very long while.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Can I just point out one major thing? THE SONG WASNT EVEN WRITTEN BY HIM.

    ReplyDelete

Comments are no longer accepted.

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.